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Oct 6th, 2008, 10:22pm
   Mischel Internet Security Forum
   Internet Security
   General (Moderators: Helena, Gavin_Coe, Magnus)
   To Ian (urgent)		 « Previous topic | Next topic »
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   Author  Topic: To Ian (urgent)  (Read 468 times)
mozar
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To Ian (urgent)
« on: Nov 30th, 2002, 1:07pm »		 Quote Quote  Modify Modify
    Hello  ,  Ian ( and the others ,of course)
 
     I just have posted this at DSL's Forum :
 
"Privacy High Risk ?
Hello ,
 
After reading a post here about "Evidence Eliminator 5.0" I went to their site and , to my surprise ,there was a yellow box with this :
 
" Your Internet traffic is being routed through the Brazilian ISP VIRTUA and Rio de Janeiro , Brazil --- you are at very high risk of investigation "
 
»www.evidence-eliminator.com/product.d2w[?]
 
The problem is that this is my ISP , my city and my country .
 
Does anybody know something about that ?  
 
Thank you all ,
 
mozar
 
P.S. : I really wish that this kind of news was just hype from the vendor . But , knowing my country , I can not be certain about that .  "
 
 
    Ian  ,  do  you  know  something about  this english vendor ?
 
    I am  asking    because  I have contacted my ISP and I will go deep into this --- against  my ISP , if it is true ,and my ISP against the vendor ,if it is a lie .
 
    Regards   ,
 
       mozar
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acheton
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Re: To Ian (urgent)
« Reply #1 on: Nov 30th, 2002, 1:30pm »		 Quote Quote  Modify Modify
Hi Mozar,
 
When I connect to that site I get a similar thing except it says  
 
"URGENT NEWSFLASH SATURDAY 30 NOVEMBER 2002 - YOUR INTERNET TRAFFIC IS BEING ROUTED THROUGH THE BRITISH ISP 195.166.xxx.xxx AND LONDON, ENGLAND UNITED KINGDOM - YOU ARE AT VERY HIGH RISK OF INVESTIGATION!"
 
The IP address is my IP address which is obviously available to them if I connect to their website. They probably run a look up against a table, since IP addresses are allocated to ISP's in blocks it is fairly easy to do. Anyone can run a tracert to find out roughly where you are connecting from anyway.
 
The web page does seems to take longer than normal to load which perhaps indicates that some background processing (the lookup) is happening. I am not sure that it is anything to worry about - probably just scare tactics.
 
 
Ach
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Ian
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Re: To Ian (urgent)
« Reply #2 on: Nov 30th, 2002, 1:34pm »		 Quote Quote  Modify Modify
DON'T WORRY! DON'T WORRY! DON'T WORRY! DON'T WORRY! DON'T WORRY! DON'T WORRY! DON'T WORRY! DON'T WORRY! DON'T WORRY! DON'T WORRY! DON'T WORRY! DON'T WORRY! DON'T WORRY! DON'T WORRY!

 
I think it's an 'intelligent' advert - obviously trying to scare people into buying the product.
 
I got the same style of message:-
Quote:
URGENT NEWSFLASH SATURDAY 30 NOVEMBER 2002 - YOUR INTERNET TRAFFIC IS BEING ROUTED THROUGH THE BRITISH ISP BTOPENWORLD AND LONDON, ENGLAND UNITED KINGDOM - YOU ARE AT VERY HIGH RISK OF INVESTIGATION!  

 
This looks like it's been done as a scare, but bases it's tactic on the various 'new' investigatory acts of law passed in, principally, the USA and the UK. The US has had various laws passed by Federal government (the newest thing about Homeland Protection - can't remember the actual law); in the UK, it's the RIP Act (2000). Basically both legalise the collection and analysis of Internet logs, email and other transmits. The UK one predates 9-11, but the US one is a reaction to it (given the different 'Freedom of Speech' rights in both countries, the US probably couldn't have done this before. Both countries are involved in the Echelon surveillance system.
 
So, IMHO, EE is engaging in scare-tactics to help sales. The page code includes a section in the header to identify the location of the user, plus it no doubt does a reverse-DNS to ID the ISP - and it even works after denying the scripts or the ActiveX content permission to run.
 
What's more, their claim to fully protect users is rubbish. The tracking is done at ISP level, but only in those countries that have similar laws and reciprocal investigation agreements with each other (such as exist between the FBI and New Scotland Yard/MI5 in London).
« Last Edit: Nov 30th, 2002, 2:45pm by Ian » IP Logged
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mozar
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Re: To Ian (urgent)
« Reply #3 on: Nov 30th, 2002, 1:51pm »		 Quote Quote  Modify Modify
     Ian  , you are saying  that  with you  the same happened (government ,black box , your ISP , city and country ) ?
      I know that it is possible to gather those information but the site  put it in a way that you are inducted to think it was a governamental  measure (illegal).
     And , Ian , my country , unfortunatelly , do not have  the same civilized privacy habits like yours --- nor  the  whisky---  this is why I became so  angry about all that .
 
      Best  regards ,
                             mozar
 
  P.S.: Ian , we had a presidential election last month . One of the guys of the new president had the idea of "investigate" the ISPs to prosecute all the people who sent jokes about the candidate by e-mails during the campaign . Can you believe ?
« Last Edit: Nov 30th, 2002, 2:18pm by mozar » IP Logged
Ian
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Re: To Ian (urgent)
« Reply #4 on: Nov 30th, 2002, 2:32pm »		 Quote Quote  Modify Modify
Yes, the same thing - which is why I'm certain it's a scare tactic. The web page is simply running a few lines of code and the sender's server is doing the DNS bit, then writing the relevant lines into the page further down. This is why Ach reports a slightly longer time to load the page, plus the fact that the 'warning' in his case includes an IP address and not an ISP name, suggesting the DNS failed (which would give an even longer time to load the page than mine, since my ISP is listed by name).
 
It's not illegal, just very underhand and sneaky - at worst, it is a confidence trick played on the reader, to give the impression that 'things' are not safe without using the product. It should be illegal, though  Angry ...
 
I'd be angry too, but I've seen many 'warnings' like this and have become immune to them! Loads of things like this rely on the reader knowing a little (or 'just enough') about the subject to become concerned.
 
The privacy issue in my country doesn't really help in things involving the RIP Act. It is a bastard of a law (please excuse the language) and one that I think is at odds with all the other UK Acts that actually protect users from misuse of information (such as our Data Protection Act and Computer Misuse Act). If I was under investigation for something and the RIP Act was invoked, I would have to disclose all sorts of information, including PGP encryption keys, email archives and so on. If I could not provide these, I would go to prison for up to 3 years - even if I physically did not have them any more. If I asked my ISP for these, they might not let me have them without good reason and I would go to prison. If I told my ISP that I was being investigated under the RIP Act, I would have broken another part of the 'rules' and I would go to prison. If the Police served a warrant on my ISP, they would have to give all records to them, but could not tell me that this was taking place, otherwise they would be fined and the person disclosing would go to prison.
 
Privacy is becoming a privilege granted by the state, rather than a human right endowed on us all.
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mozar
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Re: To Ian (urgent)
« Reply #5 on: Nov 30th, 2002, 2:40pm »		 Quote Quote  Modify Modify
  Hello  , acheton .
   Now I know it . But when you have this kind of "marketing tactics" and  a non-existent privacy culture ...
   Well , Ian , at  least  you still have the whisky . Or do you prefer bourbon ?
 
 
    mozar
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Ian
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Re: To Ian (urgent)
« Reply #6 on: Nov 30th, 2002, 2:41pm »		 Quote Quote  Modify Modify
Quote:
P.S.: Ian , we had a presidential election last month . One of the guys of the new president had the idea of "investigate" the ISPs to prosecute all the people who sent jokes about the candidate by e-mails during the campaign . Can you believe ?
This just proves that politicians have no sense of humour!
 
I saw news reports about the elections - the new President seems to be well-liked, but he could be suggesting this no-jokes investigation because he's actually embarrassed about having been a shoe-shine boy! Maybe he's in denial about his poor upbringing, despite using it to good effect in his campaign?
 
My solution would be to set up a website full of jokes about him, but have it hosted on a server in another country. Grin
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Re: To Ian (urgent)
« Reply #7 on: Nov 30th, 2002, 2:44pm »		 Quote Quote  Modify Modify
Oh, and I'll take the whisky - a good single-malt like Glenmorangie would go down nicely!
 
Actually, both are good - I have a bottle of Jack Daniels here too Grin
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mozar
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Re: To Ian (urgent)
« Reply #8 on: Nov 30th, 2002, 3:10pm »		 Quote Quote  Modify Modify
Ian ,
 
 I think we  should  also  mention  "Absolut" --- in respect to TH .
 
      mozar
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Ian
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Re: To Ian (urgent)
« Reply #9 on: Nov 30th, 2002, 3:16pm »		 Quote Quote  Modify Modify
Yes indeed - can't beat a good vodka Cheesy
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