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Nov 21st, 2008, 2:16pm
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   Author  Topic: Linux - who said it was easy?  (Read 812 times)
Ian
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Linux - who said it was easy?
« on: Feb 21st, 2003, 1:56am »		 Quote Quote  Modify Modify
Okay gang, try this one out for unusual - I've been stumped in my efforts to install a simple OS!!! (Film at 11). Here's a copy of an email I fired off to SuSE support:-
 
======================================
 
I have tried to install SuSe 8.0 Professional on my home PC, but dare not proceed for fear of losing the existing contents of the hard drive!
 
My system is:
Athlon 800, 384MB Ram, nVidia GeForce 2MX
Abit KT7-RAID motherboard, with 2 x Maxtor 2F040J0 40GB drives, striped (RAID-0) to give 80GB (both set as master on IDE 3 & IDE 4, as recommended by Highpoint).
IDE channel 1 = 250MB Zip (Master) & CD-ROM (Slave)
IDE channel 2 is unused.
 
I currently have a single multi-partition installation of Windows. Using PartitionMagic under Windows98, I have created the following six partitions (in this order, from cylinder 0):
7.6GB Windows C: (system);
196MB Linux Ext2 (intended for /boot and LiLo);
56.4GB Windows D: (applications);
1GB Windows E: (swapfile, cache space);
10.7GB Linux (main, currently set as Ext2, but hoping to reformat as ReiserFS during installation);
517.7MB Linux swap;
 
Both the Windows C: and the Ext2 Linux /boot partitions reside under cylinder 1024 on the RAID drive.
 
When the installation program is setting the partitions, the automatic settings are to create 753.0MB swap on /dev/hde6 and 347.4GB main on /dev/hde7. These are not correct! When I choose to set my own partitions, I see the following information:-
 
/dev/ataraid/d0    76.5GB   RAID array
/dev/ataraid/d0p1   7.6GB   Win95 FAT32      /windows/C
/dev/ataraid/d0p2  68.9GB   Win95 Extd (LBA)
/dev/ataraid/d0p5 196.0MB   Linux native
/dev/ataraid/d0p6  56.4GB   Win95 FAT32      /windows/E
/dev/ataraid/d0p7   1.0GB   Win95 FAT32      /windows/F
/dev/ataraid/d0p8  10.7GB   Linux native
/dev/ataraid/d0p9 517.7MB   Linux swap       /swap
/dev/hde           38.2GB   maxtor 2F040J0
/dev/hde1           7.6GB   Win95 FAT32  
/dev/hde2          68.9GB   Win95 Extd (LBA) /windows/D
/dev/hde5         874.5GB   Unknown
/dev/hde6         753.0MB F Linux swap       /swap
/dev/hde7         347.4GB F Linux (reiser)   /
/dev/hdg           38.2GB   maxtor 2F040J0
 
I concerned that the Linux installer incorrectly identifies extra partitions, reassigns drives (D: becomes /windows/E, and E: is now /windows/F, for example). If I were to continue with the installation process, I am worried that these 'extra' partitions would be over-writing my current system, destroying the Windows 98 drives and their contents! I tried to delete the partitions on /dev/hde, but the two drives (hde and hdg) remain.
 
I have read the following two documents on the support database:
"Installing SuSE Linux 8.0 on a Promise or Highpoint IDE RAID controller"
"Using an HPT370/370A/372/372A IDE-RAID controller with Highpoint drivers on SuSE Linux 8.0"
However, I am still unsure as to how I actually proceed! The first document suggests a method that, if I follow, looks like it will remove my current Windows partitions (by formatting, rebooting and reformatting). The second document tells me to recompile a new kernel just for the installation, but on another HPT370-equipped PC. I don't have another PC to try this method!
 
All I want to do is try the software out, but it looks as if I've been unlucky in my choice of PC system... I notice that the Highpoint IDE-RAID is quite a common controller fitted to many motherboards - in which case, I would have expected a fairly recent distribution of Linux to be able to cope with it!
 
I have also read that this may fall under the chargeable help system, not the free help, because it involves RAID and more than one existing partition. However, hopefully you'll understand that I don't see it that way because I'm not actually reconfiguring any hardware, I have the partitions set up for Linux to use, but the Linux installation system has a fault which means it cannot recognise my hard-drive system correctly.
 
I don't often resort to using support services (I've supported PCs at home and professionally for over 15 years), but this has got me beat! I've seen how easy SuSE linux installs on non-RAID systems (even on servers, with RAID 5 SCSI drives), but I'm annoyed that this isn't the case for my PC.
 
a) Does SuSE Linux 8.1 Professional have the same problem? (I could upgrade, without having used the 8.0 product, which would be an unfortunate waste of money).
b) Is there any way the method described in the first document can work whilst still maintaining my existing partitions intact. If so, how should I configure the partitions during both format phases?
c) Failing that, is there any way you could supply a kernel floppy (disk image) with the 'working' HPT drivers, as recommended in the second support document, so I can install this software without needing to find another identical PC.
 
======================================
« Last Edit: Feb 21st, 2003, 1:56am by Ian » IP Logged
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Ian
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Posts: 2913
Re: Linux - who said it was easy?
« Reply #1 on: Feb 21st, 2003, 1:56am »		 Quote Quote  Modify Modify
 
Their automated response system replied to tell me that the software key I used was too old (yet it was only activated on 20/02/2003) and I could basically either pay €45 (probably to be told it didn't come under the terms of their support), or else bugger off and never more bother them with silly problems like actually getting the OS installed in the first place. However, if I felt like being ignored by a real human being, I could simply reply to that message, so I sent this:-
 
======================================
 
Does this mean you're not going to try to answer this query? I have not activated the software until today (20/02/03), so I have never claimed installation support! How can this have expired already? Next you'll be telling me I don't qualify for the reduced upgrade price to SuSE 8.1 Professional because I was too late registering the older, unused version.
 
And you can forget the 'Dear SuSE Linux User' bit, because I'm not actually a user yet - the software will not install! You are really doing your best to make me stick with Microsoft at the moment...
 
Sorry if I sound annoyed, but I've spent the best part of a day preparing this system, then find out that your installer can't cope with a RAID controller which your own support documents acknowledge as being in widespread use, looking for answers that I can actually try in the Support database, and then finally calling for help. I'm tired of wasting my time on this, and yet I know I'll have to get it working somehow since I want to learn more about Linux, possibly with a view to migrating my employer's 320 workstations and 2 servers over to it in order to save us a load of license fees...
 
I can't believe it has to be this difficult just to get the operating system itself to work.
 
======================================

But then, their auto-moron told me I'd forgotten to include the License Key number, which was on the original, but had been transformed into a different 'Ticket Number', so would I like to send them another reply, quoting the exact same stuff that was quoted back to me in their first email to confirm they'd recieved my cry for help. Next there'll be an email saying they got the number, but could find the problem or original reply...
 
D'ya think they'll care? Is the Pope a Muslim?? I haven't got a whelk's chance in a supernova, have I? Grin  
 
BTW, there's a free boxed version of SuSE Linux 8.0 Professional to anyone who can name the author (and the book) from whom most of that last line is quoted.
 
And what's more, I'm not going to win the Henry Kissenger Award for Diplomacy, am I? Grin Grin Grin Grin
« Last Edit: Feb 21st, 2003, 2:08am by Ian » IP Logged
... but crap arrives pretty much straight away.
maxqnz
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Re: Linux - who said it was easy?
« Reply #2 on: Feb 21st, 2003, 3:12am »		 Quote Quote  Modify Modify
on Feb 21st, 2003, 1:56am, Ian wrote:
I haven't got a whelk's chance in a supernova, have I? Grin  
 
BTW, there's a free boxed version of SuSE Linux 8.0 Professional to anyone who can name the author (and the book) from whom most of that last line is quoted.
 
[/font]

"... then we don't stand a whelk's chance in a supernova."
 
"A what?" said Arthur sharply again. He had been following the
conversation doggedly up to this point, and was keen not to lose
the thread now.
 
"A whelk's chance in a supernova," repeated Ford without losing
momentum. "The ..."
"What's a whelk got to do with a supernova?" said Arthur.
 
"It doesn't," said Ford levelly, "stand a chance in one."
 
From Life, the universe and everything
by the late and very much lamented Douglas N. Adams - wit, author, and, above all, a Gooner!  Grin Grin Grin
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maxqnz
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Re: Linux - who said it was easy?
« Reply #3 on: Feb 21st, 2003, 3:18am »		 Quote Quote  Modify Modify
SuSe - pah, I unclog my nose in ze general direction of your steenkin' SusE. Ve Frenchies, ve kno vat it takes to make ze leenix  verk très bien.  Ze answer to your problems is in ze one leetle word - Mandrake!
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maxqnz
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Re: Linux - who said it was easy?
« Reply #4 on: Feb 21st, 2003, 3:27am »		 Quote Quote  Modify Modify
on Feb 21st, 2003, 3:12am, maxqnz wrote:

"... then we don't stand a whelk's chance in a supernova."
 
"A what?" said Arthur sharply again. He had been following the
conversation doggedly up to this point, and was keen not to lose
the thread now.
 
"A whelk's chance in a supernova," repeated Ford without losing
momentum. "The ..."
"What's a whelk got to do with a supernova?" said Arthur.
 
"It doesn't," said Ford levelly, "stand a chance in one."
 
From Life, the universe and everything
by the late and very much lamented Douglas N. Adams - wit, author, and, above all, a Gooner!  Grin Grin Grin

 
 
BTW - my prize hasn't arrived yet! Grin Grin
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Walter
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Re: Linux - who said it was easy?
« Reply #5 on: Feb 21st, 2003, 3:44am »		 Quote Quote  Modify Modify
Linux- who said it was easy?
 
A LOT of people, apparently, SAY it is easy!! The last time I checked both SuSE and Mandrake (websites, etc) assure all Windows users (who are considering switching to Linux) that it is easy!!  
 
After reading a number of articles, all soaring with the praises and the simplicity of Linux....I said OK, it's easy!? what is the problem? I can do this..and I tried it, about 15 months ago.
 
My conclusion? Whoever said it was EASY obviously had not tried installing it on MY machine!!! I tried Mandrake (the EASIEST, of the EASY, or so I was assured). Nope.
 
Then I tried SuSE, the BEST (well, better than Mandrake and almost as EASY--so I was assured). Nope. Not a chance.
 
Then I tried Mandrake (again) then SuSE (again) -back and forth. I used PartitionMagic, etc. etc. Other things etc. No luck. Install. Uninstall. Install Uninstall, etc. etc.
 
Finally, after FRYING the HD (probably my fault, I guess, still not sure) I said forget it. All of this Linux drama stretched out over a period of weeks...and many LONG and very painful, and frustrating hours, and hours and more hours....
 
Thus, I will stick with my "buggy" WinME OS. It actually WORKS, most of the time. Plus, it seems to like both TH and OP and NOD32--all at the same time. Good enough for me!!
 
So, if Linux installs properly (a huge IF, for many people) and THEN, it actually functions the way it is supposed to function, then, maybe, THAT person MIGHT say "Linux is easy!"  
 
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maxqnz
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Re: Linux - who said it was easy?
« Reply #6 on: Feb 21st, 2003, 4:20am »		 Quote Quote  Modify Modify
on Feb 21st, 2003, 3:44am, Walter wrote:
Linux- who said it was easy?
 
A LOT of people, apparently, SAY it is easy!! The last time I checked both SuSE and Mandrake (websites, etc) assure all Windows users (who are considering switching to Linux) that it is easy!!  
 
After reading a number of articles, all soaring with the praises and the simplicity of Linux....I said OK, it's easy!? what is the problem? I can do this..and I tried it, about 15 months ago.
 
My conclusion? Whoever said it was EASY obviously had not tried installing it on MY machine!!! I tried Mandrake (the EASIEST, of the EASY, or so I was assured). Nope.
 
Then I tried SuSE, the BEST (well, better than Mandrake and almost as EASY--so I was assured). Nope. Not a chance.
 
Then I tried Mandrake (again) then SuSE (again) -back and forth. I used PartitionMagic, etc. etc. Other things etc. No luck. Install. Uninstall. Install Uninstall, etc. etc.
 
Finally, after FRYING the HD (probably my fault, I guess, still not sure) I said forget it. All of this Linux drama stretched out over a period of weeks...and many LONG and very painful, and frustrating hours, and hours and more hours....
 
Thus, I will stick with my "buggy" WinME OS. It actually WORKS, most of the time. Plus, it seems to like both TH and OP and NOD32--all at the same time. Good enough for me!!
 
So, if Linux installs properly (a huge IF, for many people) and THEN, it actually functions the way it is supposed to function, then, maybe, THAT person MIGHT say "Linux is easy!"  
 

 
 
Walter, the key to your experience may be the phrase "15 months ago" I tried Linux Mandrake about 18 months ago, and it was a total abortion. I am now using Mandrake 9.0, the latest stable release, and have had no major problems at all, and have henjoyed several trouble-free installations (necessary because of hard-drive failure) Mandrake 9.1 will be out in the next month or so, and if it continues the good work of 9.0, it will be great. PLEASE give Mandrake another go, it is nothing like the same animal you tried 15 months ago. I am sure you will be pleasantly surprised.
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Jamming
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Re: Linux - who said it was easy?
« Reply #7 on: Feb 21st, 2003, 6:36am »		 Quote Quote  Modify Modify
Let me put it to you this way, about Linux.  I can't afford a new hard drive when I install a new OS.  Maybe one day when I have an older and newer machine.
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Re: Linux - who said it was easy?
« Reply #8 on: Feb 21st, 2003, 6:48am »		 Quote Quote  Modify Modify
Hey,  
Way beyond my expertise, but it sounds like Maxqnx gets the cigar, or maybe a copy of whatever.
Regards, DC
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maxqnz
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Re: Linux - who said it was easy?
« Reply #9 on: Feb 21st, 2003, 6:53am »		 Quote Quote  Modify Modify
on Feb 21st, 2003, 6:36am, Jamming wrote:
Let me put it to you this way, about Linux.  I can't afford a new hard drive when I install a new OS.  Maybe one day when I have an older and newer machine.

 
 
No, no, you misunderstood me, Jamming. The hard drive failure was completely unrelated to the OS - I had bought a lemon, that started playing up even before I installed Linux.
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Re: Linux - who said it was easy?
« Reply #10 on: Feb 21st, 2003, 10:22am »		 Quote Quote  Modify Modify
Well I have heard two more people that have had hard drive problems/failures after they installed linux besides what you just said, it seems awful coincidental. Undecided
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Re: Linux - who said it was easy?
« Reply #11 on: Feb 21st, 2003, 10:40am »		 Quote Quote  Modify Modify
on Feb 21st, 2003, 10:22am, Jamming wrote:
Well I have heard two more people that have had hard drive problems/failures after they installed linux besides what you just said, it seems awful coincidental. Undecided

 
Oh, I'm not saying it's impossible, just that  in my particular case, I had troubles with the drive from the day I got it, more than a month before I installed Linux. Since I replaced the Maxtor with a Seagate both W2K and Mandrake have been fine. You win some and you lose some, I guess.
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Ian
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Re: Linux - who said it was easy?
« Reply #12 on: Feb 21st, 2003, 12:59pm »		 Quote Quote  Modify Modify
Blimey - I didn't even get the rest of the night's sleep before that one was guessed! Okay, so now I need to shipping address... unfortunately the NZ PO won't deliver to the location 'nearby' to the place I found the last time I looked... Grin
 
Mandrake's just applied for bankruptcy protection from the French Government, hasn't it?
 
Anyway, SuSE's tech support apparently started answering calls at 11am their time (10am mine) - the same as this board's clock - but they, erm, haven't got round to mine yet...
 
The reasons I went for SuSE are varied, but I like the logo, and that it's not Red Hat (I had a bad deal with them when toying with a very early release in 1996 - kind of soured my view - then they started signing all sorts of tie-in deals with the 'big boys', like IBM, and I thought it was 1981 all over again).
 
Actually, I have used it on another PC - I bought two copies at once (one for work and one for me - I figure I need to play with systems before I'm confident to roll them out anywhere). The school system went on flawlessly, but I found it a nightmare when trying to entice some of our more basic educational software to run, plus I didn't have the time to start scouting about on the Internet for online resources to do something like a similar job. So, that PC was eventually reimaged back to Win98 and put back in the classroom. I never activated that copy either, because it worked as expected - I even liked it a lot (the only bothersome thing was the firewall seemed to be a little too much in-the-background and I couldn't find any monitring window or logfile viewer to check on it's activity).
 
Just a shame it won't go on this new incarnation of my home PC. It seems a little OTT to install it on another PC, just to recompile the correct HPT drivers into the kernel, to make a boot floppy and then install it here. I hope 8.1 will just get on with it, (if I'm offered the reduced upgrade price since the box set I got was £45) - although I should be used to chucking the best part of £100 away on an OS by now!.
« Last Edit: Feb 21st, 2003, 1:17pm by Ian » IP Logged
... but crap arrives pretty much straight away.
Ian
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Good things come to those who wait ...

   


Posts: 2913
Re: Linux - who said it was easy?
« Reply #13 on: Feb 21st, 2003, 1:06pm »		 Quote Quote  Modify Modify
Actually, maybe I'm looking at this wrong - if the Linux installer is right, I've suddenly gained over 1200GB of storage space... what a bargain!
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Re: Linux - who said it was easy?
« Reply #14 on: Feb 21st, 2003, 1:15pm »		 Quote Quote  Modify Modify
on Feb 21st, 2003, 12:59pm, Ian wrote:

 
Mandrake's just applied for bankruptcy protection from the French Government, hasn't it?

 
Yes, it's a way to give them protection while they reorganise and, hopefully, trade their way out of debts imposed upon them by previous management. So far, the signs look promising, and the release of 9.1 is going ahead as planned.
« Last Edit: Feb 21st, 2003, 1:17pm by maxqnz » IP Logged
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